WB05 e-symposium, Panel 3, title; “To Archive or Not to Archive ”.


01/ 19/ 2006 Thursday. (GMT + 2) btw. 18:00 - 20:00 Online open Panel with a Java based chat software.


Participants: Nina Czegledy (Toronto), Marcus Graf (Istanbul - Kadikoy), Robert Dansby (California), Ryanne de Boer (Groningen), Yiannis Colakides (Cyprus), Tim Hailey (New York), Calos Katastrofsky (Vienna), Teoman Madra (Istanbul), Genco Gulan (Istanbul), Andrej Tisma (Novi Sad), Mehmet Sinan (?), Umit Ozat (Fenerbahce), Real Mehmet Sinan (Japan)


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Robert Dansby has come in chat


Tim Hailey : I'm archiving coffee and a cigarette right now....not that I'm using archival methods...


Genco Gulan : We are early a bit! Shall we wait for the others or just start?


Robert Dansby : Good morning (?) from chilly California


Yiannis Colakides : hi all


Calos Katastrofsky has come in chat


Calos Katastrofsky : hi...


Tim Hailey : We can exchange pleasantries. It's very cold in Brooklyn , and major street reconstruction is happening 10 feet from where I'm sitting. Nice.


Genco Gulan : Hello California and Cyprus from a cold rainy Istanbul night, I am home and hope to serve you some warm (virtual) Turkish tea!


Tim Hailey : Alas, Genco, the last of the Turkish glasses you left me has broken. I used them instead of archiving them.


Robert Dansby : i know Carlos had said he was trying to get in at Penn st. , he has class i think at some point.


Genco Gulan : Tim, did you used the broken glasses as a collage?


Tim Hailey : Yes, Genco, an ongoing collage that I'm collaborating with the City on. It's at the landfill.


Yiannis Colakides : Major installation piece huh?


Genco Gulan : Ha, hah, ha! Markus how are you? Are you in the school or at home?


Robert Dansby : Site specific as well!


Marcus Graf : Hello everybody, no i am at home


Tim Hailey : ..and a multicultural exchange


Genco Gulan : Robert, which Carlo are you mentioning? Is it Carlo Sansolo? He was with us in the previous panel.


Marcus Graf : So Genco, it is 18:00 now, shall we begin :)


Robert Dansby : Carlos Rosas - ( the step and repeat series in wb05) he teaches at penn St. and stays up most of the night working with me via servers


Genco Gulan : Calos where are you from?


Calos Katastrofsky : hi... i'm from Vienna / Austria .


Genco Gulan : OK. Let's start with our topic: "To archive or Not to Archive". The first question is, Markus would you keep the first part of the panel – the discussion- while editing or just cut it of?


Marcus Graf : No, you cannot cut it of, because it is part of the interactive and strange structure of this e-panel. It is heterogeneous and non-linear. That is its biggest advantage and the risk at the same time.


Genco Gulan : But these panels create a text of 12 A4 pages, so Tim how can we edit these texts to couple of pages?


Robert Dansby : yes - i agree


Tim Hailey : Pages? Are you printing them? Is that necessary?


Teoman Madra has come in chat


Teoman Madra : what is happening


Ryanne de Boer has come in chat


Genco Gulan : Not printing but if we aim to publish them as an ISEA newsletter all together? Hi Teoman!


Yiannis Colakides : I guess that the idea is that the whole text is saved and then edited as necessary...


Marcus Graf : An important question is: is it worth to be archived. Do we not have too much information (garbage) already. is archiving really a good or evil thing. Today, is it not necessary to erase instead of archiving


Genco Gulan : Hi all, again for the new comers we are discussing the question "To archive or Not to Archive"!


Tim Hailey : Word, Marcus


Yiannis Colakides : Archives are about fragments which are relevant at a particular time. times change


Teoman Madra : archiving live materials or the dead ones as they call it


Tim Hailey : They are archived on this site


Marcus Graf : An Archive does not know time in the meaning of being important


Teoman Madra : archiving for the future...


Genco Gulan : I think we get used to the idea of "there are No rules in art" and instead of discussing the criteria's for good art we are talking about the methods of preserving.


Marcus Graf : Still, there are concepts.


Genco Gulan : But are they enough?


Robert Dansby : at issue for us is the random nature of the materials - we have a randomizer macro in our pieces online so each "cycle" will never be seen again


Robert Dansby : it seems to me that indeed the site is the archive


Tim Hailey : University dumpster and city sidewalks are filled with art being archived with my tea glass collages!


Teoman Madra : there are already two panels archived


Genco Gulan : As for WB we do not archive online art, as Ryanne knows, we online archive these panels for future reference.


Yiannis Colakides : I guess the main question here would be "what is an archive? and what is its purpose?


Ryanne de Boer : yes I agree, we should ask the question why to archive


Genco Gulan : Are museums archives?


Marcus Graf : Yes


Tim Hailey : Yes


Ryanne de Boer : I think in a natural way, things that are worth to archive will be archived


Marcus Graf : Though, today more


Robert Dansby : yes but the scope is very specific


Ryanne de Boer : yes and most of those museum archives are unseen, unvisited..


Teoman Madra : archiving is conservation in the cyber ...


Tim Hailey : The corporate world archives to cover their ass


Ryanne de Boer : what is worth archiving is maybe an impossible question to answer


Ryanne de Boer : only after time passes we can say what has been worth to archive


Teoman Madra : archiving can be like art


Marcus Graf : Actually, is not everybody archiving?!


Genco Gulan : I think the rules are not specific, that is the problem. When there are no rules -in art- media determines the message.


Ryanne de Boer : ive just deleted 30 percent of my emails


Ryanne de Boer : only now i could see that some aren't worth to keep


Teoman Madra : i archive the photographs


Marcus Graf : maybe you need them in the furture


Ryanne de Boer : yes,.. maybe :)


Marcus Graf : The biggest archive is the Brain.


Calos Katastrofsky : so, genco - is art a medium?


Tim Hailey : ....and my basement


Robert Dansby : since the work i do is SO site specific it is also a context tool


Yiannis Colakides : i guess an archive acts like a mirror... to quote a text from Solaris:"We need mirrors, we don't know what to do with other worlds."


Ryanne de Boer : hey people you know Derrida might bring us some interesting notes on archives


Marcus Graf : photography kills the idea of archive. Overflow makes archiving impossible.


Ryanne de Boer : see: http://www.tate.org.uk/research/tateresearch/tatepapers/04autumn/gere.htm


Genco Gulan : i think it is becoming a medium. We do not talk art but we talk about how to preserve it!


Yiannis Colakides : Archive Fever!!


Teoman Madra : archiving may be a new must


Ryanne de Boer : It is all about information technology. Already there are machines filtering information from the web and storing it... as we are talking about digital art


Robert Dansby : Overflow in what sense?


Genco Gulan : the art historians talk about end of art maybe we should consider about "end of art history"


Teoman Madra : archiving can become also a business


Marcus Graf : QUESTION: What if all archives in the world would vanish. Would that not be a new beginning. A start from zero. total freedom


Tim Hailey : In the market, art must be archived in a way that supports the illusion(perhaps) that it is important


Ryanne de Boer : or about reinventing the wheel?


Genco Gulan : Archivist they do not understand what we are doing and just talk about the technical preserving conditions.


Teoman Madra : there can be also nice mistakes while archiving


Robert Dansby : or that the web somewhat removes the importance


Calos Katastrofsky : do archives create importance?


Genco Gulan : Tim, I think you need to find a way to keep up - to sell, that is the main reason!


Teoman Madra : web sites are like archives at least mine


Ryanne de Boer : archives always have a structure, a set of rules or characteristics by which it works


Tim Hailey : To the gallerist, it is important that the art is archived in the right hands, i.e. prominent collectors that boost the status of the art or the perceived status of the art


Teoman Madra : New archives can also become very interesting


Tim Hailey : lots of smoke and mirrors


Teoman Madra : already dead materials


Tim Hailey : Genco, do you think Selda still has my boxes? Ha ha


Genco Gulan : My criteria for creating net-art or performance is - they need to be non archivable!


Robert Dansby : well the concept of post studio isnt new - i'd like to think that post gallery/museum might follow


Ryanne de Boer : maybe we shouldn't use the word archive.. it inflects a way of putting it in a cupboard where it cannot be seen


Calos Katastrofsky : mm... so it doesn't really matter what is in the archive?


Marcus Graf : Genco, what does thath mean? if something is receivable, it is achievable


Genco Gulan : Some people like to collect, I just like to observe. Sometimes I go to the supermarkets and just watch the shelves.


Robert Dansby : one of the main reasons i started art serve at Cal arts was for material not interested in that context - more people see the works on the site than ever would in a white box surrounding


Ryanne de Boer : the esthetics of the supermarket shelves ;)


Tim Hailey : ...and eat what's on them. I'm a user, not an archivist


Tim Hailey : But then I throw nothing away unless it absolutely can't be used anymore


Genco Gulan : Tim are you still living in that grocery store?


Teoman Madra : esthetics and interactivity of the archives


Tim Hailey : My own art objects often have a functional use after a show...sometimes as props in Yesim's plays!


Tim Hailey : Yes, Genco, I am


Genco Gulan : Markus, I am writing about recording in the meaning of the preservation of feeling in the fullest sense. For example Panel 5 will be an Avatar meeting and we are thinking about how to archive it.


Robert Dansby : bingo! Tim!


Ryanne de Boer : we are slowly turning in to non-materialist so maybe only the producer of an artwork will be the conservator


Tim Hailey : I'm archiving Katrina refugees now.


Marcus Graf : living means archiving. You see, you remember, you take, you keep


Tim Hailey : And they fixed themselves breakfast without me!


Teoman Madra : maybe only curators do archiving


Robert Dansby : although there is that eno quote about composting old work, which i like


Genco Gulan : Actually Ryanne lived in the Istanbul Contemporary Art Museum for 6 months! How was the experience Ryanne?


Tim Hailey : I like that too


Marcus Graf : Genco, i see


Yiannis Colakides : Tim i would like to know more about how you achieve the refugees


Ryanne de Boer : it estheticised daily life ;)


Genco Gulan : Yiannis, you have archived land in Cyprus by UN right? Is it Maras ? How does it feel?


Calos Katastrofsky : sorry, wrong planet.


Calos Katastrofsky has left the chat


Teoman Madra : arching is maybe one step ahead a message


Tim Hailey : The Katrina folks (and I am one) are all staying at my place here in Brooklyn .


Tim Hailey : Actually, many have left to archive themselves at different apartments


Yiannis Colakides : genco, I'm not sure where you are getting at.. This is not a political discussion.


Tim Hailey : I must look through the archives to see what planet Calos was looking for!


Genco Gulan : Tim we are still archiving your "pooping painting"!


Yiannis Colakides : I was asking Tim as my wife is doing a project on refugees (world wide) south and north of Cyprus


Ryanne de Boer : Tim, I was already looking for that in the archives ;)


Tim Hailey : Katrina refugees were thrown out of New Orleans and the Gulf Coast by the hurricaine


Ryanne de Boer : Genco, is it still hanging on the same place?


Genco Gulan : Yiannis, I just wanted to remind that as far as I know, there is a city in Cyprus, that is kept empty as is, by UN forces for many years.


Andrej Tisma has come in chat


Robert Dansby : quite literally, oceans springs is almost not there anymore


Ryanne de Boer : so archiving is to keep something the way it is? to preserve


Genco Gulan : Hello Andrej! How is Novi Sad ?


Andrej Tisma : Hi everybody, sorry I am late, but Genco knows I was busy…


Ryanne de Boer : archiving makes a system of that to easily find it back


Andrej Tisma : It is cold about zero


Tim Hailey : Ryanne de Boer, there is archiving and there is cataloging


Teoman Madra : archiving here is new media art observing


Genco Gulan : If you freeze sth living - that wont come to life again- for example a tropical fish? Can we call archiving? What if they want to decide on freezing artists?


Marcus Graf : Tim, what is the difference for you


Tim Hailey : yes


Tim Hailey : Archiving preserves, cataloging organizes


Andrej Tisma : Digital data, art or texts, are very easy for archiving so I think we should archive as much as possible.


Marcus Graf : ?Or can we say that "cataloging" is the method and "archiving" is the appraoch


Yiannis Colakides : Derrida speaks of the technology that makes the archive possible, that which archives the archive


Tim Hailey : cataloging makes the archive usable


Genco Gulan : Hitler was also trying to classify -people- and we saw the results. It is sometimes dangerous.


Andrej Tisma : Also digital data are very unstable, so it is one more reason to archive them, even on more than one place, HDD, DVD, CDROM etc


Teoman Madra : museums should do more archiving towards experimental things


Ryanne de Boer : Ok so I think we all agree that archives are useful


Marcus Graf : And dangerous


Genco Gulan : Now US is scanning our faces, millions or people, think about the database!


Teoman Madra : probably


Ryanne de Boer : than the next question is how.. on many different ways as Andrej says?


Tim Hailey : Hitler (and art critics) categorize as an attempt to catalog


Andrej Tisma : For examle I lost my data on several servers in America , once it was at Seprember 11 2001, and with that experience I keep my data on CDs, HDD, everywhere.


Teoman Madra : archiving need not develop daNGEROUS


Ryanne de Boer : ok so as we are talking about art on internet/web-art/net-art it should be stored on different media


Genco Gulan : I think categorisation is also to be able to understand. You should not consider all people with similar IQs.


Ryanne de Boer : who will archive???


Ryanne de Boer : and who is archiving already.. on the Internet/ WWW I find different NGO's that have


Tim Hailey : Those who have a self-interest in archiving: the artist, the dealer, the CIA...


Teoman Madra : not individuals or only individuals


Ryanne de Boer : yes.


Ryanne de Boer : so the one who see importance in it


Yiannis Colakides : Would data collection constitute an archive?


Genco Gulan : or does an institution legitimize itself with a collection or database?


Yiannis Colakides : or is an archive something more important than a collection of data?


Tim Hailey : Your institution only exists as a database, right?


Yiannis Colakides : And in which way is it more important?


Andrej Tisma : It is one more interesting thing in my xcase of archiving - I keep several thousands emails in my folder which were set to me during the 1999 year bombing of Novi Sad . It took about 3 months


Robert Dansby : data collection/ data bases are a part of my work , but a component, but a very important one in terms of organization, ease of access and cross reference


Teoman Madra : archiving is maybe like statistics


Teoman Madra : archiving and statistics maybe they quite alike


Andrej Tisma : and I didn't get to open all those emails. I had approach to internet every 3 or 4 days, so I opened and replied only to the urgent messages


Genco Gulan : We have data, paintings and people and information...I think "custom navigation" is a better answer to say what we have.


Andrej Tisma : So I keep the "archive" unopened for last 6 years, and who know what is there. People's worry about my life, health, some insults I suppose, but also some viruses, warms (my scanner warns me)


Robert Dansby : Exactly and again to cross reference, digitally is a huge thing


Ryanne de Boer : by buying a piece of net-art is that like buying the rights to preserve it?


Genco Gulan : For example this panel is about communicating on four continents, not only about documenting!


Ryanne de Boer : our personal archive is a reflection of ourselves :P


Teoman Madra : new media art conferences archiving should be important


Yiannis Colakides : Ryanne de Boer whenever one buys a piece of art they assume the responsibility rather than the right to preserve it.


Genco Gulan : Markus, how do you keep the archives of your galleries?


Ryanne de Boer : yes, you're right


Teoman Madra : archiving must be case sensitive


Marcus Graf : Genco, mainly by taking pictures and texts. Though the exhibition on photo looks different, is different. Therefore, maybe we can say that the archive (sometimes) changes the archived thing


Genco Gulan : Teoman, where does Beral Madra keeps her "secret" collection?


Robert Dansby : good point Marcus


Teoman Madra : maybe She has plans


Tim Hailey : documentation adds its own layer of meaning and interpretation


Ryanne de Boer : archiving is important.. Information is power. Archiving is to make information transparent and accessible


Genco Gulan : Today "performance art" is all about films and videos, I do not want "new media art" to be remembered with CD ROMS and DVDs.


Teoman Madra : archiving may need also a talent


Robert Dansby : i've often been asked over the years if i was a photographer simply because of photographed works... as archive


Tim Hailey : and talent changes what is being archived


Genco Gulan : Is Beral building a secret underground museum in Ayvalik?


Teoman Madra : to become a photographer for the things not photographed


Tim Hailey : the same as historians determine history


Andrej Tisma : I bought a 160 GIGA hard disk in order to archive my video works


Teoman Madra : Ayvalik is and can be for the future


Marcus Graf : Archiving to prevent from getting destroyed. But for whom? There are archives, that nearly nobody can enter.


Genco Gulan : Turkish painter Esat Tekand ones did paintings of famous performances in art history. Than are they become painting or just records?


Marcus Graf : record paintings


Marcus Graf : painting records


Teoman Madra : archiving with creativity may be as a performance like chatting


Marcus Graf : By the way, every painting is a record, therefore an archive of its own


Tim Hailey : interpretive journalism


Ryanne de Boer : but those archives you cant enter at the moment.. they are for future use right?


Genco Gulan : Than a young artist Halil Altindere sprayed on one of them a dollar sign and he has sent to court. You can find his trial records in the...


Robert Dansby : that is an interesting question, yes Tim that is a good answer


Teoman Madra : also mistakes with archiving like other things


Genco Gulan : actually art is a record of thought as well. Once you have an idea you decide which media to record with, drawing, video, paint?


Tim Hailey : I could write an article about the highlights of this discussion, which would make it more readable but it would be colored by my own interests


Andrej Tisma : It is good that big museums world-wide have archives for net-art/web-art, but the problem is who is archiving, what is their criteria


Robert Dansby : i think archiving and curating are perhaps more aligned than we want?


Yiannis Colakides : Sean Cubitt in an article of his which we will be publishing in our site tomorrow says: The Walker Gallery archive of net-art is emphatic - what it shows is no longer 'art' but a history of art.


Genco Gulan : OK. Tim why don't you do that? We will publish your edition!


Teoman Madra : archiving some other time but chat thinking now


Tim Hailey : can include reports of motorcycle racing?


Genco Gulan : fine, anything you like:-)


Ryanne de Boer : the goal of archiving determines the content


Genco Gulan : We are networked at the moment for sure and we will archive this as well. Now how can this become art?


Tim Hailey : When I write about racing, it documents the race, but only what I think is important enough to make a readable article in a particular space.


Andrej Tisma : Archiving curators in museums have their own taste, criteria, group of interest, so those archives are fragmentary, not objective, are very subjective. Not giving a real image of situation.


Marcus Graf : Take it out of its context (translocate it)


Genco Gulan : How?


Tim Hailey : a lot gets left out


Robert Dansby : but for people who work primarily with media/information it is also a


Ryanne de Boer : only if you write an additional text to tell why it is art


Teoman Madra : archiving the art is like education some time later


Robert Dansby : important component


Ryanne de Boer : knowledge about the past brings innovation in the future?


Genco Gulan : Ryanne what text can make it art and who should write it? Artist, curator, historian, politician, God?


Marcus Graf : You


Teoman Madra : archiving the mistakes ca n be security


Andrej Tisma : The advance of digital media is that it is easy and cheap to archive, much easier than classical art.


Ryanne de Boer : yes, if you want it to be art or you consider this art. You should write it down to us to explain


Genco Gulan : No; not really, I already have been writing enough!


Marcus Graf : I have to leave. it was nice discussing with you and it is even nicer to be archived with you all. By


Ryanne de Boer : text cannot be art in itself for it follows the rules of text and not of art


Genco Gulan : Markus, can you draw us a picture about this panel?


Marcus Graf has left the chat


Teoman Madra : bye


Andrej Tisma : Dear friends, this was all I had to say about archiving, and I will leave now. One hour has passed. Thanks and bye.


Marcus Graf has come in chat


Andrej has left the chat


Marcus Graf : genco- yes


Marcus Graf has left the chat


Genco Gulan : OK. The hour is over and thank you very much for all of you and hope to see you in our Avatar meeting next month.


Tim Hailey : Thanks Genco


Nina Czegledy has come in chat


Mehmet Sinan has come in chat


Genco Gulan : Hi Nina, where have you been?


Nina Czegledy : Hi Genco and All, sorry if you have been waiting, I promised to be here by 12 EST


Robert Dansby : Genco the time zones have confused everybody!?!


Nina Czegledy : yes, I have just done that


Tim Hailey : Mehmet and Genco in the same chat room..?


Genco Gulan : Hello, how are you, do you have time?


Tim Hailey : a ventriloquist act


Genco Gulan : Yes, not for the first time though!


Nina Czegledy : I am well in Toronto and eager to begin discussing archiving


Genco Gulan : The first question can be are you happy about the archives of ISEA?


Nina Czegledy : for me the first question would be to make a distinction between documentation and archiving


Real Mehmet Sinan has come in chat


Genco Gulan : Or in general how do you find the archiving/ documenting trends of New Media?


Tim Hailey : I feel like persons are being archived and documented on this panel...


Nina Czegledy : As we agreed at the Refresh conference last fall in Banff , a considerable amount of work remains on archiving


Robert Dansby : this sounds really interesting


Robert Dansby : refresh?


Nina Czegledy : I am in favour of open archives and encouraged by world wide activities


Nina Czegledy : in new media re archiving


Mehmet Sinan : refresh me


Genco Gulan : The question is are you satisfied / convinced with the methods? And are there only technical problems?


Genco Gulan : Dear Mehmet, where are you at the moment?


Nina Czegledy : No there are numerous issues concerning terminology and other conceptual points


Tim Hailey : He's here with me in Brooklyn !


Genco Gulan : OK


Nina Czegledy : Is Mark Tribe with us?


Real Mehmet Sinan : Somewhere in Japan


Genco Gulan : He said he wanted to be but he is not here at the moment. How was your exhibition?


Tim Hailey : Mehmet went clubbing last night. I hope there is no archived documentation of that!


Tim Hailey : Mehmet and I, that is


Nina Czegledy : The Reconnaisaince exhibition opens this evening in Toronto www.interaccess.org


Genco Gulan : I quote from the site “The exhibit features works that explore military issues, one through miniaturization and shadow play, the other through child's play...”


Nina Czegledy : Yes, on the surface it provides a false sense of security....


Genco Gulan : How do Finnish people relate war with them? Isn't it is quite a peaceful place up there!


Nina Czegledy : beneath the surface however you encounter images and sounds of destruction


Mehmet Sinan : Finnish adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Finland or the people of Finland ; "Finnish architecture" [syn: Finnish] n : the official language of Finland ; belongs to the


Nina Czegledy : One of the intriguing aspects of the artists work is that they come from a peaceful neutral country


Genco Gulan : Tim, Yiannis can you introduce yourselves to Nina as well!


Mehmet Sinan : war n 1: the waging of armed conflict against an enemy; "thousands of people were killed in the war"


Nina Czegledy : yet they are so aware of current political and military issues


Tim Hailey : Hi Nina. I'm waning here


Mehmet Sinan : introduce v 1: cause to come to know personally;


Nina Czegledy : Tim, please don't


Robert Dansby : i'm almost to IT meeting time!!!


Yiannis Colakides : hi nina. I'm a Cypriot architect involved also in the arts here and editor of neme.org


Mehmet Sinan : waning adj : (of the moon) pertaining to the period during which the visible surface of the moon decreases; "after full moon comes the waning moon"


Genco Gulan : Hi Robert I did not see you


Tim Hailey : Thanks for your encouragement, Nina. How's Toronto ?


Mehmet Sinan : Cypriot adj : of or relating to Cyprus or its people or culture


Mehmet Sinan : encouragement n 1: the expression of approval and support


Nina Czegledy : Hello all - should we have a discussion on our panel theme - how do you see the role of archiving in new media


Tim Hailey : Mehmet's always reading from the dictionary at the clubs too: "Lap Dance-noun..." It's very annoying to the girls.


Genco Gulan : Nina, we were on the panel for on hour and Andrej Tisma, Omer Madra, Markus Graf and Ryanne de Boer were here as well.


Robert Dansby : in my case it's part and parcel of making work first, but also distribution


Mehmet Sinan : discussion n 1: an extended communication (often interactive) dealing with some particular topic


Genco Gulan : My question was; do we need to archive/ document what ever we do?


Yiannis Colakides : hi nina. here is something i wrote b4 you came in... Sean Cubitt in an article of his which we will be publishing in our site tomorrow sais : The Walker Gallery archive of net.art is emphatic - what it shows is no longer 'art' but a history of art.


Mehmet Sinan : archive n : a depository containing historical records and documents


Tim Hailey : Only if you want to.


Genco Gulan : Cant we really discuss about the other option, deciding not to archive at all!


Nina Czegledy : Yes, this is a big question. In a recent panel discussion David Roke by Canadian new media artists said : “I always wish to document my work but not necessarily archive it”


Genco Gulan : In Web Biennial we do not archive or document any art, only document e-symposium panel texts...


Tim Hailey : But the artists maintain their own archives


Genco Gulan : Yes


Nina Czegledy : this can be a personal choice, however I find it intriguing that more and more collaborative projects…


Mehmet Sinan : Biennial adj 1: occurring every second year;


Nina Czegledy : archive the process of project development


Genco Gulan : Nina Just before you come we were discussing about how to edit these with Tim...


Yiannis Colakides : if Derrida was right in equating (in a certain manner) archives to memory, how can we not archive how can we erase our memory?


Mehmet Sinan : intriguing adj 1: disturbingly provocative


Mehmet Sinan : memory n 1: something that is remembered;


Nina Czegledy : I agree that editing, especially spontaneous events such as this chat is problematic.


Genco Gulan : We go to movies...to erase or movies come to us?


Mehmet Sinan : spontaneous adj 1: happening or arising without apparent external cause


Genco Gulan : Mehmet, how do you see the rise of the Japanes art? Is it too much pumped?


Mehmet Sinan : erase v 1: remove from memory or existence; "The Turks erased the Armenians in 1915"


Tim Hailey : Haha


Mehmet Sinan : Japanese adj : of or relating to or characteristic of Japan or its people or their culture or language; "the Japanese Emperor"


Genco Gulan : Yiannis and Mehmet, you are very well prepared...


Tim Hailey : Can Mehemt logout now?


Mehmet Sinan has left the chat


Yiannis Colakides has come in chat


Tim Hailey : I don't mean to offend...


Yiannis Colakides : My browser has just crashed...


Tim Hailey : your browser was offended!


Yiannis Colakides : so can somebody fill me in?


Robert Dansby : yipes that was...hmmmm thank you tim


Genco Gulan : Nina, here we are trying a different format, it has advantages and disadvantages as you can see…


Tim Hailey : should New Orleans be archived


Nina Czegledy : I am all for trying alternate formats


Robert Dansby : that is a HUGE question but i say yes


Genco Gulan : My concern was in Refresh we were talking more about preserving than actually art.


Tim Hailey : Back to New Orleans . It is a difficult question. As a living place, it is almost lost entirely.


Robert Dansby : it is a multileveled collection of things that say a lot about where we are politically , socially and economically so yes


Nina Czegledy : I agree


Robert Dansby : and i n danger of becoming a theme park for the tourist world


Genco Gulan : so how can we really shift the parameters from medium to content, that is my real question, what do you think Yiannis?


Tim Hailey : yes, or a complete wasteland


Robert Dansby : i cant believe i don't know refresh - how embarrassing


Robert Dansby : particularly the 9th ward


Robert Dansby : tim


Tim Hailey : yes


Genco Gulan : they have video documented the whole panel and it is available online


Mehmet Sinan : tape recording machine


Yiannis Colakides : In the Mac Luhan theorem the medium is the message but imposing content to it is another matter all together


Genco Gulan : Nina, may I ask why did you choose to work with Finnish artists?


Nina Czegledy : I have been working for several year


Tim Hailey : The Fins are great race car drivers, as well.


Robert Dansby : genco Carlos Rosas just called from the road to say he couldn't make it and make sure i talk more!!!!


Umit Ozat has come in chat


Nina Czegledy : sorry, I meant to say that I have been working for a long time both with Finnish artists and also in Finland


Genco Gulan : See Refresh! at http://www.mediaarthistory.org/


Nina Czegledy : actually on February 5th, the Aurora Public Feast project will be shown in Helsinki ,


Genco Gulan : Hi Umit, how are you? Where are you from?


Nina Czegledy : part of it is an interactive web site - will post on this asking for contribution


Umit Ozat: from Fenerbache :)


Genco Gulan : I guessed so!


Robert Dansby : oh keep me posted??!


Nina Czegledy : yes?


Robert Dansby : can you keep me in the loop on this?


Tim Hailey : Oh no, Umit will be as bad as Mehmet!


Yiannis Colakides : nina if you wish to promote your projects you may post your releases in our site too.


Umit Ozat: well, i had looked at the previous panels and saw lots of fictitious users such as Mehmet Sinan, Osman Hamdi, so i'm trying to figure out what is really going on here


Nina Czegledy : our AuroraLive team intends to circulate info and a request for mailing in a word representing imagined or


Robert Dansby : perhaps we should all post or sites/ blogs etc. as an addendum


Genco Gulan : This is an open chat room so anybody can come anytime...


Nina Czegledy : real aurora experiences which will be incorporated in the dynamic site


Nina Czegledy : Any more input on archiving or documentation of new media?


ümit özat : was steve dietz from the previous panels the real one or was it all theater?


Genco Gulan : I realized in the previous ISEA newsletters, there is a great emphasis on diversity but we can not see this in conferences, publications


Tim Hailey : congratulations to Nina for staying on point


Nina Czegledy : yes Genco, I fully agree and it is up to us to change it like you do it with this chat


Genco Gulan : I am trying my best and Umit, yes, I am positive that Steve Dietz was with us, I am almost sure about that! Don't ask me how:-)


Robert Dansby : since most is media oriented archiving is unavoidable, intent of the archive changes i suppose


Robert Dansby : i mean what i do has no physical properties so how else record it?


Nina Czegledy : Due to changing formats etc., I am not sure if archiving remains constant


Genco Gulan : How can we make documentations interactive and real time like this? Is it possible with chat bots?


Yiannis Colakides : I'm not sure that archive, database and safekeeping is the same.


Tim Hailey : Archiving of anything is done by those with an interest in having something archived and will inevitably reflected the archivist's self interest


Nina Czegledy : No, I don't think that these are the same


Yiannis Colakides : just to shelve something or keep it in a disk is it archiving?


Genco Gulan : so how do we keep content alive?


Tim Hailey : I think archiving and safekeeping might be the same, database and cataloging something else. But that discussion is so first hour....


Nina Czegledy : Re Genco's question, I have been working on a Canadian digital culture database and we


Yiannis Colakides : The real question is the one which I posed in the beginning. What is an archive?


Real Mehmet Sinan : N? au d?but des ann?es 1990 sur la sc?ne techno, le VJing est la pratique du mixage en direct de flux d'images, faisant ainsi le pendant au DJing,


Genco Gulan : Nina, before you came I was talking about "custom navigation" as we also discussed with John Ippolito.


Nina Czegledy : intend to incorporate methods whereby people can upload information which will keep the open archive fresh


Yiannis Colakides : and what separates an archive from a collection of arbitrary (or not) things?


Nina Czegledy : Genco, custom navigation is indeed a very interesting concept


Genco Gulan : open, fresh are some key works but how are we going to choose or understand which is real and which is not!


Robert Dansby : yes the point of digital tech is that we can access it


Nina Czegledy : It is difficult to imagine today, what will be relevant tomorrow, don't you think?


Genco Gulan : Mehmet by the way, some French characters does not show up here!


Yiannis Colakides : yes Nina but does this mean that we save everything? No qualitative measure?


Real Mehmet Sinan : nach unserem Website Launch am Freitag, den 13. Januar haben Sie sicher schon mehrfach versucht die neue Website zu finden. Vielleicht war die


Genco Gulan : Umit did you enjoy our previous panels?


Real Mehmet Sinan : Auswahl des Datums zu gewagt, jedenfalls sind wir nun seit gestern online!.


Real Mehmet Sinan : http://www.akademie-solitude.de


Tim Hailey : Qualitative decisions happen when server space gets low


Robert Dansby : i think that is a design question Nina


Robert Dansby : gotta order those x servers with lots of drives Tim


Nina Czegledy : Yiannis, to keep a balance between saving all or not is, I think quite difficult


Tim Hailey : wish that I had one


Robert Dansby : they are LOUD


Tim Hailey : I'll keep it in the basement


Tim Hailey : my basement archive


Robert Dansby : and there is no qualitative measure that isn't subjective


Real Mehmet Sinan : To receive your gift, please click on or cut and paste:




Genco Gulan : yes, decisions are important but we should build a basis to build them.


Tim Hailey : which is running short of space because of my difficulty in determining what not to archive


Robert Dansby : Carlos Rosas refers to the database as a cultural generator oh No not this stuff again?


Tim Hailey : Maybe that guy released from the Turkish prison will assassinate all Mehmet Sinans…


Genco Gulan : Artists should claim the lead to re-generate the culture!


Connection interrupted


Tim Hailey : BTW, the real Tim Hailey is out running important errands


Connection restored


Genco Gulan : Ctrl C - Ctrl V, I have documented everything we have talked


Umit Ozat: Genco i found them interesting but since i did not know which part was real or serious, i was little suspicious


Tim Hailey : looking back through the archives, I see that I was a much better panelist in the first hour


Robert Dansby : well folks meetings call - thanks for this exchange, hope to stay in touch no?


Tim Hailey : I can only get worse in the third, so I must bid adieu


Genco Gulan : Suspicion is sometimes useful!


Tim Hailey : Yes, I hope we all meet someday in the analog world over beers


Nina Czegledy : Hi Genco, sorry for the time mix up - do you wish to continue?


Robert Dansby : at Rothko Dubwar in Brooklyn !!!!!!!


Yiannis Colakides : I still want to know what I've missed when my browser crashed. Genco can you email me the whole text?


Robert Dansby : nina interesting ideas by the way ciao


Yiannis Colakides : or copy and paste it here?


Genco Gulan : No problem. Nina, thanks for sharing time for us in such a hectic day


Yiannis Colakides : the bid i missed i mean


Tim Hailey : Bye all. Genco, talk to you this weekend.


Tim Hailey has left the chat


Genco Gulan : I will publish it on the webbiennial.org


Yiannis Colakides : bye Tim


Umit Ozat: hey do it at a later time next time so that i can join as well. i just got out of training!


Yiannis Colakides : correct the typos... i hope:)


Genco Gulan : And sorry for the impolite manners, this is an open public chat room…


Nina Czegledy : ok - let's keep in touch and please let me know if there is another opportunity, I gladly participate especially on a quieter day if there is one..


Genco Gulan : But I like the format, of the non linear texts...


Nina Czegledy : yes the non linear text is intriguing - bye


Nina Czegledy has left the chat


Umit Ozat: non-linear but still hierarchal

Umit Ozat: anyway, it looks like i have missed most of it this time; next time i'll try to catch it.. maybe i'll recommend it to my teammates, too


Real Mehmet Sinan has left the chat