WB05 e-Symposium, Panel 2, with the title “New media or Media Art”.


16/ 12/ 05 Friday GMT 18:00 - 19.00 Online open Panel with a Java based chat software Morevil Web Chat Lite 2.4. Software Appropriated by Genco Gulan.




Participants: Jeremy Turner (Vancouver), Genco Gulan – moderator (Istanbul), Markus Graf (Istanbul - Asian side), Andrej Tisma (Novi Sad), Osman Hamdi (?), Carlo Sansolo (Rio de Janeiro), Mehmet Sinan (Istanbul), Gokhan Mura (Malmo)




“Mehmet Sinan has come in chat”




Jeremy Turner has come in chat


Jeremy Turner : hello room


Mehmet Sinan : hello everybody!


Andrej Tisma : Hello, Genco how many people do you expect for today's panel?


Genco Gulan : Hello every body, welcome to the second Panel! Nina, Steve Dietz and Trebor Sholz wrote me saying that they are all in transit!


Jeremy Turner : will they attend the panel from their laptops?


Mehmet Sinan : I think we are the few that are not transit!


Jeremy Turner : yes, most Media Artists, Curators and Critics are jetsetters ;-)


Mehmet Sinan : Actually technology is being promoted on mobility but...


Marcus Graf : Good evening lady and gentleman


Andrej Tisma : It seams that NEW MEDIA can not help or facilitate our communication?


Jeremy Turner : they might be able to sign into this chat from a PDA if they have one


Genco Gulan : Also the topic is k


Jeremy Turner : it could if they had the right gear for mobility


Andrej Tisma : I mean in case of Steve, Trebor and Nina!


Gokhan Mura has come in chat


Teoman Madra has come in chat


Genco Gulan : the topic is kind of critical Media Art or New Media!


Jeremy Turner : Good morning to everyone from my time zone


Andrej Tisma : Hi Gokhan


Gokhan Mura : Hi everybody, I just came now


Teoman Madra : hi people


Andrej Tisma : Well, I think first we have to define what is NEW MEDIA


Jeremy Turner : and define what sort of NEW MEDIA art is about being critical


Andrej Tisma : In 80s I remember photography and analogue video was new media.


Genco Gulan : Hello all and lets start with some ideas, Teoman Madra what was your kitchen called? and why?


Teoman Madra : all media begins as new...


Jeremy Turner : it was new media in some countries...In Vancouver, photos and video were already a tradition in the 1970s


Mehmet Sinan : today people are afraid to use the term new!


Andrej Tisma : I think today we could say DIGITAL media are new media.


Jeremy Turner : or simply that digital media is digital and nothing new anymore


Teoman Madra : newmediakitchen is a platform of a kind


Jeremy Turner : Recent Media is better than New Media


Genco Gulan : But in Refresh conference some argued to remove "new" compleately!


Marcus Graf : Remember, there was a time even without oil paint and then the Reanaissance brought it up a the new media, which perfectly could mirror reality


Teoman Madra : unknown media is ready for nice mistakes


Genco Gulan : Markus tell me about your Media!


Gokhan Mura : but every time something will be more recent... what are going to acll the art work of today ten years later...most probably not "new media works" anymore


Jeremy Turner : I think removing "new" might be a good idea in the short term while we wait for biotech and nanotech and quantum tech to come into its own. it is the next "New Media".


Marcus Graf : Media comes from medium. my instrument is the exhibition as a medium


Mehmet Sinan : why are people scared of discussing "new" than? Is the love for new became old?


Teoman Madra : nanotech animations are striking


Andrej Tisma : Now about differences. New media could be a reproduction of art, of performance, installation, photo etc. But media art is art made in those new media, and for consuming in those media.


Jeremy Turner : the love for "New" is something that has at least been in fashion since the Futurists at the Turn of the 20th Century


Genco Gulan : by the why the software I developed works as fast as Skype!


Marcus Graf : "New" was a must for the modern avant-garde in order to be ahead of their time. Maybe new is just a label for being fresh, cool, up to date


Jeremy Turner : …will this support audio one day too, like Skype? ;-)


Teoman Madra : communication of newer items may be attractive


Andrej Tisma : I agree to use term "new" under condition, but let's discuss the main issue of this panel.


Jeremy Turner : "New" definitely implies "Novelty"


Jeremy Turner : I do not see much these days except for video games and podcasting and maybe avatars and AI bots that still inspire a sense of "novelty" in people.


Genco Gulan : Jeremy, I will work on the sound, maybe you can help me :-)


Teoman Madra : web art is in the cyber space


Jeremy Turner : I am not very technically talented, Genco...I am more of an "ideas guy" ;-)


Jeremy Turner : I am a bit confused as to what the specific topic is today...it sounds a bit vague so far.


Marcus Graf : interesting is also to discuss the concept of "new" in art and culture. What can be new that not a big company already constructed


Mehmet Sinan : we have been working with bio tech and no one does not understand! SO what is the use of new if it is not been perceived!


Jeremy Turner : well there is "New Art" and "New Media" those are different concepts..yes


Marcus Graf : it is lived in bio tech


Genco Gulan : and media art' Gokhan how is Stockholm ?


Jeremy Turner : it has been perceived, just has not been practiced yet as a legit art practice


Gokhan Mura : Well actually I am in Malmö... and as you can guess windy... and coldish


Gokhan Mura : :)


Teoman Madra : both for net-art and the web art new music is a best base material


Jeremy Turner : there are biotech artists already but what they do right now is rudimentary


Genco Gulan : what about some real art ?


Marcus Graf : Art is still in some kind of depression


Jeremy Turner : "New Music" - now you will need to define that? I am an electro-acoustic composer where the world of so-called "New Music" is still really a mutant form of academic 20th Century Classical Music.


Jeremy Turner : I agree with Marcus Graf


Jeremy Turner : it is the academic calm before the storm.


Gokhan Mura : may be because we still could not find the way of expressing the emotions of the digital age


Genco Gulan : if we document what we talk better, I mean historicizing will it save us?


Teoman Madra : please visit newmediakitchen.com at a later time


Jeremy Turner : the digital age might already be over that might be the problem...


Gokhan Mura : may be the digital art or new media art today is not avant-garde enough as the avant-garde in the beginning of 20th century


Marcus Graf : Because of the missing "new", the death of the avant-garde in Europe , the only way of creating something new is developing a new language through a new medium, the digital one


Jeremy Turner : historicizing will only work if we actively upgrade our archiving processes every 18 months to avoid obsolescence


Genco Gulan : yes Teoman Madra why it is new media and not media art kitchen?


Jeremy Turner : we have to historicize in real-time. that is a recent phenomenon.


Teoman Madra : new music turns into digital format more and more


Mehmet Sinan : real time, yes i like it but also please consider virtual time as well...


Gokhan Mura : but should it be totally digital...? it seems that we are concerning through materials again and expressions produced by tangible forms which can be programmed digitally...


Jeremy Turner : yes, in the mediumistic sense...music production is follow much more "New" patterns in terms of content, not much is "New" or even "Recent" even though it will currently be "contemporary".


Teoman Madra : because new media is also out of media as well


Mehmet Sinan : we are too many Turks in the panel tonight so we will start talking about football soon...


Jeremy Turner : yes, virtual time is subjective = quantum tech will be the true harbinger of media that works exclusively within virtual time


Andrej Tisma : For example digital (new) media allows communication world wide through web or wireless, so it gives an artist like never before to a TV station, a radio station, and it gives him possibility for act


Jeremy Turner : virtual football? lol!


Marcus Graf : virtual time is a non existing duration, a vacuum, filled by non receivable moments


Jeremy Turner : I agree with you, Andrej Tisma.


Genco Gulan : Andrej Tisma but "they" say that it is no more "new"!!!!!!!


Gokhan Mura : yes, interactivity and customization are the keywords to be discussed may be, that are present in so called new media art different than the media art


Jeremy Turner : I think Quantum tech will make more sense of "time" in the virtual sense because "digital" time is still stuck in the linear progression of events.


Mehmet Sinan : as I always say; if it is not new than it is just medium!


Andrej Tisma : I wanted to say nowadays artist can be a TV station, radio station which gives him an opportunity for activism like never before.


Jeremy Turner : I agree with Mehmet.


Teoman Madra : new technology invites new platforms to be creative


Jeremy Turner : I also agree with Andrej Tisma again.


Genco Gulan : but when you are on trans


Jeremy Turner : I agree with all of you really ;-)


Genco Gulan : but when you are so mobile you may not need a digital mobility?


Teoman Madra : web art is more suitable for communications


Gokhan Mura : what about the audience of art.. I think new media art also give the audience much more power on the expression and experiencing the art work


Marcus Graf : i agree with Andrej, the digital area gives people a wider audience, the internet destroys the hierarchy between artist and spectator, because mostly he becomes a participator


Jeremy Turner : when you are truly mobile, you will have a medium that is a substitute for telepathy.


Genco Gulan : you never know Teoman, the usage of Internet is quite low in Turkey !


Teoman Madra : net art is a powerful tool in the web


Marcus Graf : But be careful, also the media needs access. Who holds the key holds the power, like always


Andrej Tisma : But if the new media is so mighty why Steve, Trebor and Niana can not participate. What does that mean "in transit" they can use laptop, mobile etc?


Jeremy Turner : Gokhan, that would depend on how the web art is advertised as there is so much stuff, it takes active targeted promotion to bridge the digital divide between academic and populist demographics.


Mehmet Sinan : Jeremy, I like telepathy, we should try this as the next panel ;-)


Teoman Madra : web art is open to individuals too


Jeremy Turner : yes, I think in 18 months, we should have telepathy available for JAVA ;-)


Andrej Tisma : Yes, telepathy definitely works, but it is an ANCIENT media.


Genco Gulan : I recently learned that they had developed viruses for msn.


Jeremy Turner : yes, open to individuals but it takes some form of organizational structure to promote an individual's web art and this even applies to blogs...


Jeremy Turner : unless the topic of the blog is so sensational, it automatically draws hits.


Teoman Madra : i managed pretty good to download java what is next


Jeremy Turner : yes, ANCIENT is NEW again ;-)


Genco Gulan : or maybe it is a rumor just to block anonymity!


Jeremy Turner : Steve will like that idea of the ANCIENT being NEW ;-)


Gokhan Mura : I suppose it will become new ;)


Jeremy Turner : Teoman Madra, you have permission to download my brain next, it is totally opens source ;-)


Jeremy Turner : open source = typo


Marcus Graf : that was the concept of the renaissance. over and over again


Genco Gulan : Teoman, that is good for you! friend any recommendation -as for the software for the Panel 3? other than telepathy I mean?


Teoman Madra : all brains are welcome once you get in contact with


Jeremy Turner : I would suggest an avatar panel for the next time...how many people use PCs rather than Macs here?


Genco Gulan : I send my kisses and love to all that wanted to be with us but could not...


Gokhan Mura : when I think of new media art, I always think about the interactivity in the eral sphere through sensors and stuff so soon we will see ancient type artworks that interact with us... may be even now th


Jeremy Turner : ;-)


Andrej Tisma : I agree, therefore I made a web site called "Spirit Art" and it can be seen at www.webheaven.co.yu/spiritart/


Mehmet Sinan : avatar sounds fine but you have to send us instructions...


Gokhan Mura : now there are ones like that but I dont know...


Teoman Madra : e-paneling is interesting i never chatted before


Jeremy Turner : yes, the next wave of interactivity is known as "Enhanced Reality" - using sensors and other peripherals to bring virtuality into the material world.


Jeremy Turner : I am in an avatar community regularly but it is PC-only


Jeremy Turner : thanks Andrej Tisma, I am also interested in "Spirit Art" in my own work.


Mehmet Sinan : ...and art, where the heck is some good media (new) or what ever it is some "good" art?


Gokhan Mura : may be.... It was hard to express this sentence through three parts :)


Jeremy Turner : about the avatar environment: www.digitalspace.com/traveler


Jeremy Turner : I do not think the medium determines the quality of art


Andrej Tisma : I used to work in my performances in a spiritual, telepathic and magic way in 90s


Jeremy Turner : unless it hinges on the novelty of the chosen medium


Jeremy Turner : awesome Andrej Tisma, we should collaborate. I have done very similar work.


osman hamdi has come in chat


Marcus Graf : most (new) media is still reflecting the medium itself. More than experimenting does not come out


Gokhan Mura : I am interested in wearables and we can produce enhanced beings for performance art for example through peripheral devices


Teoman Madra : how about economical political and philosophical things on the side


osman hamdi : hello all


Jeremy Turner : Hi Osman


Andrej Tisma : OK Jeremy we should continue off panel later


Jeremy Turner : good idea, Gokhan...


Mehmet Sinan : I am very much interested with avatar so we should work on this, I use a PC…


Jeremy Turner : ok, if everyone has PC access, there is a free avatar program called DigitalSpace Traveler that uses graphics, spatial audio and voice


Jeremy Turner : it is like a video game but more like a chat environment


osman hamdi : I am not much into computing but painting!


Jeremy Turner : my PC should be fixed by next week. then i would be ready


Jeremy Turner : what is your opinion of "New" media, Osman?


osman hamdi : for me photography is still new…


Gokhan Mura : so you have been painting over a century then osman ;)


Jeremy Turner : why is photography still new to you, Osman?


osman hamdi : even more than that!


Teoman Madra : photography was and is new media for me


osman hamdi has left the chat


genco gulan has come in chat


Jeremy Turner : Osman, if you are immortal and have lived over a century, then you might be a nanotech performance artist and are the most avant-garde artist here :-)


Gokhan Mura : :)


Marcus Graf : photography cannot be new media


genco gulan : i am back, my browser just closed by itself and...


Jeremy Turner : I agree with Marcus Graf...I hope we did not scare Osman away


Teoman Madra : new models of digital tech can be


Jeremy Turner : welcome back, Genco


Andrej Tisma : Photography is 150 years old now


Marcus Graf : it could maybe considered as an new art medium since 1972


Jeremy Turner : Photography is a classical tradition in Vancouver now.


Mehmet Sinan : no he is a good guy, I like him a lot. Still one of the best in town.


Andrej Tisma : Yes, artists' photography is newer


Gokhan Mura : but new media art could be done through photography.. so which one is the new part here? the software only?


Jeremy Turner : even video has developed its own classical lexicon.


Teoman Madra : photographers don't experiment very densly


genco gulan : actually photography is quite hip in EU these days. photography do sell!


Jeremy Turner : developed = typo


Jeremy Turner : yes, I agree with Genco. The most famous Vancouver-based artists are photographers


Mehmet Sinan : so what if you can not sell?


Jeremy Turner : but they do not believe they are working with "New Media".


Andrej Tisma : don't worry, there are many typos here


Marcus Graf : digital photography is just like painting with a high tech brush. The digital postproduction makes the difference and turns photographs into works of new media


Jeremy Turner : good point, Mehmet.


Teoman Madra : to sell needs a talent


Jeremy Turner : I am obsessed with my own typos...sorry ;-)


genco gulan : we develop WB mainly to prove that art can be produced without sponsors


Marcus Graf : of course it can


Jeremy Turner : to sell needs, marketing talent - that should be clarified


Andrej Tisma : But typos can tell much in the field of unconscious


genco gulan : and also art can exits independent of consumer culture


Jeremy Turner : heh heh..especially if they are embarrassing typos


genco gulan : for example thanks to WWW we can still make inter-continental panels without plane tickets!


Marcus Graf : art is foremost something from an artist to himself - a mirror of/ for the se?f


Teoman Madra : industries need to sponsor the artists


Andrej Tisma : For me it is easy since my native language is not English


genco gulan : OK lets go back to MEDIA ART!


Jeremy Turner : would be nice to get supported by others financially just so we would not have to get day jobs.


Gokhan Mura : but do web art suppose to target wide audience or, intellectual audience all over the world, which may make it independent from consumer culture....


Mehmet Sinan : yes, what the FCUK is this Media art?


Andrej Tisma : I think the Internet, the WWW is a hugest audience possible today.


Marcus Graf : Do we really reach a wide audience tonight. is it really so democratic? Hellllllllooooooooo


Jeremy Turner : I agree with Marcus Graf


genco gulan : people don't use WWW Andrej Tisma they use SKYP we are old fashioned again!


Jeremy Turner : most transmissions are still pretty grassroots in terms of outreach


Jeremy Turner : usually one has to be sponsored by i-tunes just to be heard on a mass-scale


genco gulan : but still we produce a text!


Andrej Tisma : Media art is using media in artistic purposes.


Jeremy Turner : Skype has an audience of maybe 10 computers at one time.


genco gulan : how many new media art critics are out there, writing?


Jeremy Turner : with sponsorship, pod-casts push that audience into the millions.


Teoman Madra : web art can be like chatting to whom is interested


Andrej Tisma : I write from time to time about media art.


Jeremy Turner : occasionally I write about it too but these days, I tend want to write more about content than the medium


Marcus Graf : who reads it, who listens. isn't it maybe only mind garbage, over pleanty, weight


Mehmet Sinan : again the publications are quite limited as well


Andrej Tisma : But I write mostly about internet art.


Jeremy Turner : I wrote an abstract about Nanotech's potential affect on the arts that never got completed....


Gokhan Mura : what was your main points in thesis nanotech essay?


genco gulan : send us and we will publish it online


Jeremy Turner : http://www.transhumanism.org/index.php/th/more/382/


Marcus Graf : i write about contemporary art and its context


Teoman Madra : panels are great as net art incidence


genco gulan : for the ISEA Newsletter I mean...


Jeremy Turner : it is online - the abstract that is (the url is above)


Jeremy Turner : that would be great if the abstract could also be in print. thanks Genco


Jeremy Turner : my main points are mentioned in the abstract


genco gulan : I am not sure about print but digital may work...


Andrej Tisma : Carlo Sansolo wrote me an email he will join us soon


Teoman Madra : with the panels there are no moderators it seems


Jeremy Turner : but to summarize, the realm of conceptual art would finally migrate into the material world and that artists would finally get to return to focusing on content rather than the process.


Jeremy Turner : ok, no worries.


genco gulan : he must be asleep


Marcus Graf : what is our point?


Jeremy Turner : I have been on both moderated and un-moderated net panels.


Gokhan Mura : but do you think is it only nanotechnology that would make it available


Teoman Madra : which are better


genco gulan : I think live electronic art is closer to performance art than anything else...


Jeremy Turner : well, the promise of Drexlerian Nanotech is that any idea could be created in the material world...even if the materials themselves never existed before.


genco gulan : ...than it is fresh and "new"...


Marcus Graf : what do you mean genco. something like tonight


Gokhan Mura : I think so...


Jeremy Turner : I agree with Genco...it is performance art and even Drexler himself pointed out in 1986, that if Nanotech becomes the main artistic medium in the future, most of the population would be...


Jeremy Turner : "performance artists".


Teoman Madra : what about live or calculated digital music all around more and more


Gokhan Mura : May be first I need to read the abstract.... but wanted to carry the discussion here while you are online


Jeremy Turner : yes, that is the next "New Media" to look forward to, in my opinion with biotech being a transitional novelty


genco gulan : maybe Markus, at the moment we have interchanging information through 3 continents (maybe more?)


carlo sansolo has come in chat


Jeremy Turner : ok, no problem Gokhan.


Andrej Tisma : Hi Carlo


carlo sansolo : hi guys!


genco gulan : Yes I would like to welcome the Southern hemisphere!


Gokhan Mura : hi


Jeremy Turner : live/ calculated digital music is fast becoming documented history...printed anthologies from critics about "glitch" music are already academicized.


Teoman Madra : how is the weather there it seems we are all elsewhere


Jeremy Turner : David Toop is already famous as a "Glitch" historian ;-)


Andrej Tisma : Now Carlo what do you say, what is NEW MEDIA today?


Marcus Graf : if art is a medium of/ for communication and media art is a medium for interactive communication tonight is a (new) media happening; Beuys on chip


carlo sansolo : It ´s me, I am in Rio de Janeiro , it's nearly summer1


Jeremy Turner : "Beuys on Chip" sounds like a new glitch band ;-)


Jeremy Turner : or an electro-clash band


carlo sansolo : new media, I am processing and coming up with something in a few minutes!


Andrej Tisma : Or as a dead rabbit!


Mehmet Sinan : concepts are important, without a concept everything is lame! or shall I say jetlag?


Jeremy Turner : Andrej, i will email you my Beuys pix later...you have read my mind ;-)


Jeremy Turner : jetlag is pretty lame too ;-)


genco gulan : Carlo forget new media send us some media art ;-)


Teoman Madra : newest forms of arts are in the performance side…


Jeremy Turner : I agree with Teoman.


Andrej Tisma : Beuys stuff sounds funny in the context of digital era


Marcus Graf : really, why?


carlo sansolo : some about new media: it is the stuff that can actually try in matter today, in a global manner.


Jeremy Turner : so what does this mean for New Media Performance that has a useful degree of criticality?\


carlo sansolo : quite simplistic but does it make sense to you?


Jeremy Turner : yes, I but Beuys in the digital era with some work from last year..will send after the panel is over.


genco gulan : actually what they do is recording the performance on a tape - just bullshit- if it is not live than it is history...


Teoman Madra : Beuys was making contemporary art with sensitivity


Marcus Graf : Performance art is the art form, in which the medium is the body. Therefore, how can it be new media


Jeremy Turner : I agree with Genco...the key is to do something truly live with avatar or VoIP tech.


Marcus Graf : pardon, the body is the medium :)


Jeremy Turner : if the body becomes Post Human and can merge into any other material and/or technological media, then even the body becomes "New"


Gokhan Mura : since it is happening " at the moment" it can be considered as a kid of new media, philosophically if we say that body is renewing itself every second


Teoman Madra : the medium is the massage


Marcus Graf : Yes, and that is the point


Andrej Tisma : But there are online performances too, using the new, digital media


Jeremy Turner : yes, it is the most New Medium that way...constantly in the moment...everything else is soon history.


carlo sansolo : the problematic thing there is the word "new", I think that´s quite problematic.


genco gulan : Actually I do make performances without body, I gave a lecture in Koln University about virtual bodies with AI


Marcus Graf : When the screen between spectator and virtual space vanishes, a new medium, a mixture of bossy and ?? will occur


Jeremy Turner : yes, my current work revolves around online performance but I see the online component as transitional until bio, nano and quantum tech become more available


Teoman Madra : should net art have links with contemporary art


Jeremy Turner : I agree Carlo, it is super-problematic


Marcus Graf : it is part of contemporary art


Jeremy Turner : Genco, do you have your lecture online for me to read?


genco gulan : at the moment I am talking Derya Yucel on the phone, a young Turkish curator,


Jeremy Turner : that is a topic that informs my current work


Jeremy Turner : "contemporary" art just means art being made today


Jeremy Turner : so currently, "Net Art" is contemporary art because most people are still making it


genco gulan : she wants me to translate what we have been talking on into Turkish.


Jeremy Turner : sadly, even "painting" can be seen as a contemporary art


Marcus Graf : it is the language and content of today


carlo sansolo : I think we should, perhaps concentrate in what is useful for making possible what one wants to do!


Jeremy Turner : yes, Carlo, I agree...that should be the fundamental concern with regards to using one medium over another.


Jeremy Turner : brb...refilling my coffee mug...


Marcus Graf : There is a war between media, as i see it...


Andrej Tisma : the post "new" and complex media is human brain, and all media that approaching that are new


genco gulan : for example we do not have password protection in this panel so people -even virtual -can come in and out


Jeremy Turner : a war? what kind of war?


Andrej Tisma : the most = typo


Jeremy Turner : I agree with Andrej.


Jeremy Turner : great, I hope you invite tons of virtual people,, Genco, they are my fave :-)


genco gulan : that is the good part of the good old WWW but MSN is trying to dominate what is see as only the market!


carlo sansolo : other important point is the possibility of act in different part of the globe.


Jeremy Turner : Genco, maybe you can invite some chat-bots next time to the conference.


Andrej Tisma : We can just try to understand our brain activity and by that to improve ou media


Jeremy Turner : yes, that is one of my favorite things about net art right now...global communication and collaboration


Mehmet Sinan : hey maybe you are also virtual Jeremy! How do we know that you are not Steve Dietz?


Marcus Graf : Jeremy said "sadly, even painting can be seen as contemporary art". That means he would like to call it non contemporary in order to prefer another medium. New Media kills old media like the young art kills the older generation


Jeremy Turner : I agree with Andrej Tisma. We need more research into the workings of the pineal gland to explore the mechanics of visionary experience.


Andrej Tisma : Yes, Jeremy sound claver like Steve


Jeremy Turner : Hey Mehmet...that is a good point. maybe I am Steve's undercover automated agent


Jeremy Turner : who exists to terminate painting ;-)


genco gulan : Come on Mehmet! I also think that even painting can be "new". Actually I made a series "the images robots can not read" referring to Web Bots.


Teoman Madra : it is not so easy to become old media artist now as it seems to me


Jeremy Turner : my programming began in 1974, so I am hardly "New". All Steve did was give me an upgrade ;-)


Marcus Graf : Dear vriual friends and colleagues, i have to leave. See you sometime in another virual corner. By


Jeremy Turner : if Web Bots paint, that would be kewl...


Marcus Graf : where are my t's


genco gulan : auf wieder sehen Marcus Graf


Jeremy Turner : Harold Cohen made a both that could paint in the 60s, I think but it was not telerobotics like the web


Marcus Graf : tschŸsss


Marcus Graf has left the chat


Jeremy Turner : Bye Marcus Graf


Mehmet Sinan : carlo what is the next festival?


carlo sansolo : oh we made this: www.progme.org


Andrej Tisma : Hi all it is now one hour past. Did we come to any conclusion about the issue of new media and media art?


Jeremy Turner : notice how fast I respond, I must be automated...the conspiracy has been revealed ;-)


Mehmet Sinan : the next is it going to be a "new media" festival or a "media art festival"


carlo sansolo : at this very moment, I am applying for a new project, I mean applying for $$$$


Teoman Madra : it was very nice to chat


Jeremy Turner : nope, as usual we came to absolutely no conclusion


Jeremy Turner : it is nice to get $$$$, Carlo


Jeremy Turner : I wish I had some $$$$ about now


genco gulan : i think no conclusion is better than anything else


Andrej Tisma : media is $$$


Jeremy Turner : yes, if we leave the narrative open ended, we can still create


Gokhan Mura : and then how we are gonna edit this Genco ;)


Jeremy Turner : for those who still want to chat and correspond about such topics, please email me at ideatron@gmail.com


Gokhan Mura : may be we can just put our conclusion and kill the essence of "democratic web chat"


Teoman Madra : more people should know more about net art and web-art


carlo sansolo : other probelm with "new" media - no women on the chat!


genco gulan : my wife is waiting so I have to leave but lets exchange emails about this avatar and try to make it happen as the third or fourth panel in the second or third week of January 2006


Jeremy Turner : ok, I will be too busy during the weekend of Jan 29th but maybe before then, we could do it


Teoman Madra : spq@tnn.net


Jeremy Turner : Thanks Genco...it was fun


carlo sansolo : csansolo@gmail.com


Mehmet Sinan has left the chat


Andrej Tisma : Can you Genco forward us all email addresses of participants?


carlo sansolo : bye


carlo sansolo has left the chat


Gokhan Mura : ok I have to leave now as well... thanks for food for brain.... bye


Jeremy Turner : yes, that is a great idea.it saves us from having to write everyone down one at a time.


Jeremy Turner : bye Gokhan


genco gulan : OK I will do the emailing but who needs editing, lets keep it like this


Jeremy Turner : yes, lets leave it raw


Jeremy Turner : to be true to the medium


Gokhan Mura has left the chat