WB05 e-symposium, Panel 0, title; “Introduction”.
Gokhan Mura (Malmö), Genco Gulan ( Istanbul ), Nadia Palliser ( Rotterdam ) Mercedes Gonzalez de Garay ( Istanbul )
[ 15:10:33 ] Genco Gulan says : OK. How shall we start?
[ 15:11: 06 ] Gokhan Mura says : Well I think, my point is how (new) Media Art in Turkey is influenced by the conditions of Turkey
[ 15:11:20 ] Genco Gulan says : I was trying to make an e-symposium for years
[ 15:12:10 ] Gokhan Mura says : So what do you think should be the frame of that e-symposium
[ 15:12:19 ] Genco Gulan says : I believe that Media Art is to a point independent from location, identity and condition…
[ 15:12:46 ] Gokhan Mura says : Well this being independent from location is an important point....
[ 15:13:17 ] Genco Gulan says : The idea of the e-symposium is just to start a written dialogue because articles are mostly monologues
[ 15:13:20 ] Gokhan Mura says : as the media technologies could nearly be accessible anywhere, media art could be independent from location
[ 15:13:53 ] Gokhan Mura says : a dialogue as we started now and as happened in the other e-panels....
[15:14:34] Gokhan Mura says : but Genco I think, every art is also dependent to the location as the inspiration comes from the geography, namely in Istanbul for example when an Istanbul based artist produces work...
[ 15:15:07 ] Genco Gulan says : yes, for example we couldn't make a conversation when you were in Istanbul but we can change ideas
[ 15:15:28 ] Genco Gulan says : online as you are in Malmo and I am in Galata
[ 15:15:33 ] Gokhan Mura says : of course the artists also reflect their thoughts, emotions, critics that could be universal but I think place still affects the work....
[ 15:16:11 ] Gokhan Mura says : galleries of a city, or the curators living there of course effects the publicity of the work or its reception so in general context art is dependent to place let me say
[ 15:16:33 ] Genco Gulan says : Of course the place is very, very important but I also have problems with national representations because they mostly result in certain exoticisms…
[ 15:17:13 ] Gokhan Mura says : yes, if people are waiting something "Turkish" from a Turkish artist it won't be appropriate I think....
[ 15:17:29 ] Genco Gulan says : plus, new media bring new relationships, so you are no more bound with the physical boundries.
[ 15:18:02 ] Gokhan Mura says : and you can also define your audience or express your work to an international audience....
[ 15:18:12 ] Gokhan Mura says : which changes the reception of the work
[ 15:18:53 ] Genco Gulan says : still with these e-panels - after I started to feel that I have overcome certain things- I realised that there are other boundaries appearing; for example language
[ 15:19:32 ] Gokhan Mura says : yes... languauge
[ 15:19:56 ] Genco Gulan says : especially in terms of internet art my audience is not Turkish and this is not my choice...
[ 15:20:01 ] Gokhan Mura says : I always feel that the English speaking people have a great advantage to express themselves when the common language is English
[ 15:20:29 ] Gokhan Mura says : and do you feel like doing your work in English... texts or audios if you have?
[ 15:21:51 ] Genco Gulan says : Of course. And also the infrastructure is very important, so here if we are not online we are playing Don Quijote (Spanish version)
[ 15:22:29 ] Gokhan Mura says : you mean new media art can not be offline?
[ 15:22:56 ] * Genco Gulan , Mercedes de Garay adli kullaniciyi Yazili Mesaja ekledi
[ 15:23:07 ] Mercedes de Garay says : hi!
[ 15:23:13 ] Gokhan Mura says : hello mercedes
[ 15:23:31 ] Mercedes de Garay says : hi how are you?
[ 15:23:45 ] Genco Gulan says : I am not sure, I believe in live art so being online helps a lot!
[ 15:23:47 ] Gokhan Mura says : trying to be ok in cold malmö... :)
[ 15:23:53 ] Mercedes de Garay says : So what are you talking about?
[ 15:24:15 ] Mercedes de Garay says : :)
[ 15:24:22 ] Gokhan Mura says : "new" media art and its relation with location and language at the moment
[ 15:24:47 ] Genco Gulan says : we are talking about trying to stay online without expensive gadgets
[ 15:25:24 ] Gokhan Mura says : Genco, I think that online audience could speculate the audienceship a bit I think
[ 15:25:52 ] Mercedes de Garay says : I don´t understand you
[ 15:25:54 ] Mercedes de Garay says : sorry
[ 15:26:00 ] Gokhan Mura says : Well a physical audience can interact with the artwork and the artist in a way... but he or she is singular
[ 15:26:02 ] Genco Gulan says : I think I am more interested with survival methods
[ 15:26:03 ] Mercedes de Garay says : can you explain it better
[ 15:26:36 ] Gokhan Mura says : but when you are visiting an online work you can create as many personnas as you wih and speculate the artwork....
[ 15:26:46 ] Gokhan Mura says : I dont say it is negative but it is different
[15:27:17] Genco Gulan says : As an artist we have to find means to exist, to communicate and I do not care which media it is, I need something that works and it is cheap so Internet and new media works for me at the moment
[ 15:27:42 ] Gokhan Mura says : I see your point
[ 15:28:03 ] Mercedes de Garay says : but also you can use the media in different forms depending in what you want to say and how
[ 15:28:22 ] Gokhan Mura says : but do artwork survive in that way... I mean in an archive or so, when there is no interacting audience
[ 15:29:18 ] Genco Gulan says : I know that both perception and archiving of new media are also problematic but I can not save the whole world alone.
[ 15:30:00 ] Genco Gulan says : I am after certain magic moments and Internet mostly helps and sometime it does not!
[ 15:31:21 ] Gokhan Mura says : I see your point as an artist... web really provides certain possibilities for artists to create artwork and to share it with a wide audience....
[ 15:32:06 ] Gokhan Mura says : and its web-based art's property to be hard to archive and may be accepted like that , different than the classical arts
[ 15:32:27 ] Genco Gulan says : also real time interaction is great Nam June Paik would have loved this chat!
[ 15:32:45 ] Gokhan Mura says : :)
[ 15:33:08 ] Genco Gulan says : and online sometimes does not work for example
[ 15:33:41 ] Gokhan Mura says : it is a state of online art as well I think...
[ 15:33:47 ] Genco Gulan says : Nadia is not around, so it is now very possible for us to communicate but it some how does not work!
[ 15:34:17 ] Gokhan Mura says : yes. the medium does not provide everything...
[ 15:34:28 ] Gokhan Mura says : it just shows you the possibilities...
[ 15:34:45 ] Genco Gulan says : i think it is not only art but also academia is stuck.
[ 15:35:02 ] Gokhan Mura says : most probably...
[ 15:35:28 ] Gokhan Mura says : most people are not able to define a formula to produce avant-garde again....
[ 15:37:55 ] Genco Gulan says : Academia has to utilize new media
[ 15:38:59 ] Genco Gulan says : The Internet is gone
[ 15:40:12 ] Gökhan Mura says : so after some turkish, we have started a dialogue in English about "new" media art
[ 15:38:20 ] * Gökhan Mura , Nadia_Palliser adli kullaniciyi Yazili Mesaja ekledi
[ 15:38:48 ] Nadia_Palliser says : hi everybody
[ 15:39:05 ] Gökhan Mura says : hello
[ 15:39:22 ] Nadia_Palliser says : finally online - sorry i'm late !
[ 15:39:27 ] Gökhan Mura says : I thought you have contacted Genco before about the addresses... sorry for inconvenience
[ 15:40:04 ] Nadia_Palliser says : no problem, I haven't been on Skype for ages, too busy to chat ;)
[ 15:40:31 ] Genco Gulan says : Hello Nadia welcome back
[ 15:40:33 ] Nadia_Palliser says : OK is this a serious panel to be added to the newsletter?
[ 15:41:00 ] Gökhan Mura says : I think it is like panel 0, the introduction...
[ 15:41:01 ] Nadia_Palliser says : I'm really sorry I missed the panel on to archive or not to archive - how did it go? OK
[ 15:41:58 ] Gökhan Mura says : Genco will archive it I think and I will work on editing...
[ 15:42:15 ] Genco Gulan says : Hi Nadia, so we are thinking about making this text as the editors intro:
[ 15:43:01 ] Nadia_Palliser says : ok and the theme is - "new" media art ?
[ 15:43:15 ] Gökhan Mura says : to repeat the initial thought: l I think, my point is how (new) Media Art in Turkey is influenced by the conditions of Turkey
[ 15:43:41 ] Gökhan Mura says : And Genco was more focused on the possibilities that the INternet could provide to artists to survive
[ 15:44:25 ] Nadia_Palliser says : ok this sounds good - its a pity Nat Muller could not join us today - she is in a film at a festival here in Rotterdam
[ 15:45:08 ] Gökhan Mura says : That could be nice to have him also...
[ 15:45:40 ] Gökhan Mura says : Nadia, how do you think is the new media art is influenced by the place it is produced?
[15:45:40] Genco Gulan says : I think the first theme proposed by Nina was a Newletter focused on Turkey and with online panels I tried to prove that how the inital identities could exist without certain borders and in new ones. For example even a film festival can become a border for Nat Muller.
[ 15:46:21 ] Nadia_Palliser says : last Sunday I heard a comment about new media festivals - they aren't any fun anymore! Are there interesting media festivals in Turkey ? festivals also allow identities to construct themselves no?
[ 15:46:56 ] Gökhan Mura says : there is going to be one digital performance days in april... but do not know very much
[ 15:47:34 ] Nadia_Palliser says : I think a lot of new media art is still very much locally orientated
[ 15:47:39 ] Genco Gulan says : We have a Web Biennial which I try to prove that it exists purely online and independent from a single location.
[ 15:47:41 ] Gökhan Mura says : Ekmel Ertan and Techne-net crew will inform us more I hope
[ 15:47:59 ] Nadia_Palliser says : location awareness has always played an important role in setting up artistic activities
[ 15:48:56 ] Genco Gulan says : We are also working with GalataPerform and they are organising A performnace Art days in March here in Istanbul .
[ 15:49:12 ] Nadia_Palliser says : I think this kind of location awareness in media art can be temporary though as with the ISEA symposia
[ 15:49:43 ] Nadia_Palliser says : sounds interesting - what kind of performances?
[ 15:49:44 ] Gökhan Mura says : I think even though the medium is developed and complicated the inspiration is formed through the locations artists experience....
[ 15:50:34 ] Genco Gulan says : Personally I am more interested with trans locations. I am planning to make an offer to make an ISEA conference on Air planes flying all over the World.
[ 15:51:02 ] Nadia_Palliser says : oh that sounds great ! I'm all for mobile dwelling !
[ 15:51:29 ] Genco Gulan says : Of course also exhibitions, installations concerts all n planes and maybe in some airports of multiple cities, all simultaneously
[ 15:53:13 ] Genco Gulan says : I think working with locations and exocitizing them is too post-moder and we have to find a way to fly over it.
[ 15:53:18 ] Gökhan Mura says : well ISEA 2004 was slower but on wheels... or on boat lets say
[ 15:54:09 ] Genco Gulan says : And I am planning to make a flying ISEA proposal for 2010!
[15:54:38] Gökhan Mura says : need to give a little break as my fever and head ache is getting more... coming in 2 minutes after a water break
[ 15:54:42 ] Mercedes de Garay says : a bit expensive...I think
[ 15:54:47 ] Nadia_Palliser says : as far as identities might be locally based, its not so interesting - how do you propose that Turkish artists find their borderlines?
[ 15:55:13 ] Nadia_Palliser says : Hi mercedes
[ 15:55:19 ] Mercedes de Garay says : hi sorry
[ 15:55:27 ] Mercedes de Garay says : I was reading
[ 15:55:36 ] Nadia_Palliser says : I'm Nadia working form ISEA hQ
[ 15:55:38 ] Mercedes de Garay says : now I start to participate...:P
[ 15:56:00 ] Mercedes de Garay says : I´m Mercedes working with Genco
[ 15:56:23 ] Nadia_Palliser says : ok - at the museum in Istanbul ?
[ 15:56:26 ] Genco Gulan says : But everything is expensive -especially the new gadgets- so if everything is expensive the margins may come closer
[ 15:56:28 ] Mercedes de Garay says : yes
[ 15:57:18 ] Genco Gulan says : So Nadia did you read the texts of our panels, how do they sound?
[ 15:57:25 ] Mercedes de Garay says : mmmm I think we have to find new ways out of expensive or cheap
[ 15:57:51 ] Mercedes de Garay says : I think artist can create great thinks without expensive tools
[ 15:58:45 ] Nadia_Palliser says : low tech
[ 15:58:51 ] Genco Gulan says : I think it is also about networking and efficiency. ISEA participants fly to conferences any way, so my proposal will be providing them -artistic/ academic content- n the way.
[ 15:59:31 ] Mercedes de Garay says : low-creative-tech
[ 15:59:38 ] Nadia_Palliser says : yes I liked the panels
[ 15:59:54 ] Genco Gulan says : Not necessarily low tech, for example talking on Skype is free / cheaper than previous technologies...
[ 16:00:11 ] Mercedes de Garay says : mmm is not really free, the companies sell it as free
[ 16:00:27 ] Mercedes de Garay says : but you need a computer, you need internet
[ 16:00:42 ] Gökhan Mura says : I am back... getting sick I think...
[ 16:00:46 ] Mercedes de Garay says : that is money, you must think that also
[ 16:00:57 ] Genco Gulan says : and my lap top is stolen very recently;(
[ 16:01:46 ] Nadia_Palliser says : unfortunately I can't get on the site at the moment? But I do wonder how to make some of the babble a little more to the point?
[ 16:01:51 ] Genco Gulan says : so in Turkey we have new Universities and new Museums opening and the crime rate is increasing!
[ 16:01:57 ] Nadia_Palliser says : ha ha
[ 16:02:58 ] Mercedes de Garay says : :)
[ 16:03:14 ] Gökhan Mura says : what is your suggestion to make the babble to the point?
[ 16:03:43 ] Nadia_Palliser says : perhaps we could distill the main points/quotes and add on examples ?
[ 16:04:36 ] Nadia_Palliser says : or would or like to put the chat literally in the newsletter?
[ 16:05:46 ] Gökhan Mura says : i think we should not put all chat to newsletter
[ 16:06:19 ] Gökhan Mura says : and may be determine our basic concerns and tell our ideas on them and make the introduction like that
[16:07:24] Nadia_Palliser says : but it woul;d be nice to get some kind of chatty feeling into the newsletter - I will have to look at all the texts again - maybe we could start working something out the coming week?
[ 16:07:41 ] Nadia_Palliser says : were there any major revelations?
[16:07:45] Genco Gulan says : Gokhan will be making some editing for the newsletter but my main intention is to use the communication - that you refer as chat - as the source text. We also have some couple of supporting articles. But the main content is these texts- including this one.
[ 16:09:04 ] Genco Gulan says : And we will link the intros with full texts.
[ 16:08:58 ] Gökhan Mura says : we can keep the chaty structure but should cut some parts, otherwise we will have long texts :)
[ 16:09:44 ] Genco Gulan says : OK
[ 16:09:45 ] Gökhan Mura says : and for the next panel, i think everyone should join with a unique username, it was even hard foe me to understand who is saying what when there are only group names as galata 1 or galata 2
[ 16:10:50 ] Genco Gulan says : it was a technical problem, we will have the user names but Avatar Panel will be quite different next week!
[ 16:10:50 ] Nadia_Palliser says : how did the panel go on: To Archive or Not to Archive?
[ 16:11:39 ] Nadia_Palliser says : I 'm sorry I missed it: since I am very busy with ISEA's archive the topic is of interest to me!
[ 16:12:23 ] Genco Gulan says : I tried to support the idea that "...not archiving should be an option" but it was me who archived the whole text/ online.
[ 16:12:59 ] Mercedes de Garay says : mmm
[ 16:13:38 ] Nadia_Palliser says : yes all this documentation is something of an obsession - one has to be selective I think!
[ 16:13:45 ] Mercedes de Garay says : I think the texts must have a chat look like, but maybe divided by issues
[ 16:14:06 ] Mercedes de Garay says : because if not will be very long to read or maybe divided in most interesting points…
[ 16:14:39 ] Mercedes de Garay says : long...I mean hard
[ 16:14:56 ] Genco Gulan says : there is not much debate on new media art and I am happy that 1) we are starting some discussions 2) We are creating new texts.
[ 16:15:24 ] Nadia_Palliser says : short soft reading for next ISEA newsletter :) with sharp points to stir the old timers in de media scene ;)
[ 16:16:15 ] Gökhan Mura says : yes... basak senova, who will contribute to the newsletter was asking for a crtain deadline... do we have it, or bit depending on our own tempo?
[ 16:16:49 ] Nadia_Palliser says : well we are already behind on schedule but i think we should have it done by the end of February
[ 16:16:50 ] Genco Gulan says : exactly!:D
[16:18:37] Genco Gulan says : I think we are going Ok because many started writing or calling me and saying that they want to participate as well, I was running open calls for debates but no one was even emailing me!
[ 16:19:58 ] Genco Gulan says : I am kind of tired as well. Making online panels are as hard if not harder than on-site panels.
[ 16:17:07 ] Gökhan Mura says : ok
[ 16:17:29 ] Gökhan Mura says : so feb 20 is a good time for the last date for texts
[ 16:17:48 ] Nadia_Palliser says : do you think that it possible - I would be happy to read through and gather the sharp points or we could divide the texts amongst ourselves to save time?
[ 16:18:08 ] Nadia_Palliser says : ok the 20th it is - cool
[ 16:18:33 ] Gökhan Mura says : well I meant the texts out of the chats but I will try my best for editing the panels as well...
[ 16:18:49 ] Gökhan Mura says : everything is bit messed up here in Malmö....
[16:19:47] Gökhan Mura says : but may be we can send you the text part by part when we will finish them and you could read through before all texts have finished
[ 16:20:28 ] Nadia_Palliser says : do you have a list perhaps of the issues you have been addressing at the panels and which you wish to define further in the newsletter?
[ 16:21:07 ] Nadia_Palliser says : are the chats more important than the panels?
[ 16:21:53 ] Gökhan Mura says : I think they are the same... but we are using different words for them... the panels were online chats
[ 16:22:12 ] Gökhan Mura says : so every panel was recorded as chat format
[ 16:23:42 ] Mercedes de Garay says : sorry
[ 16:23:56 ] Mercedes de Garay says : conection problems
[ 16:25:05 ] Nadia_Palliser says : I can imagine - it is quite a distracted business and all in all it seems to me it is also quite hard to extract what is worth documenting
[ 16:25:34 ] Gökhan Mura says : sometimes there are many layer of discussions... try to decipher :)
[ 16:26:00 ] Genco Gulan says : Yes, we have created 4 texts, all online but in one we met at GaataPerform Istanbul. The panels are: Panel 1: Net-art versus Web Art, Panel 2: New media or Media Art, Panel 3: To Archive or Not to Archive , Panel 4: New Art: What is Happening in Turkey ?, Panel 5: "Real Virtual versus Virtual Real" Panel 6: "How Much Asia ?"
[ 16:26:23 ] Nadia_Palliser says : but will the categories - chat - epanel and on-site panels be part of the newsletter? I 'm just wondering how to structure all of this ...
[ 16:27:06 ] Nadia_Palliser says : or will the layers be the structure and not the format in which is communicated?
[ 16:27:52 ] Genco Gulan says : It is already structured. I have highlighted some of the important points as well we just need intros.
[ 16:29:21 ] Nadia_Palliser says : ok
[ 16:29:56 ] Nadia_Palliser says : that is very clear now, sorry you sent it to me but I wasn't sure if thus would be the structure for the newsletter too
[ 16:29:56 ] Genco Gulan says : it will be like a dialogue, See:
“[ 20:04:18 ] Steve Dietz says: I agree with the idea that Web art is a specific subset - http based - of a larger category net art, which includes ftp, sms, etc. Does it include bonfires?
[ 20:04:41 ] Jeremy Owen Turner says: in the case of Graham Thomson's work, it does include bonfires :) “
[ 16:31:18 ] Nadia_Palliser says : OK but would such a text be literally in the newsletter - what for example does Steve mean with bonfires?
[16:31:35] Gökhan Mura says : my idea, that we have not clearly talked with Genco even is to make an introduction about the structure then to panels...edit and put them to newsletter and also add the personal articles which would be 4 articles I think if everybody writes...
[ 16:32:14 ] Mercedes de Garay says : I think some parts of the texts are personal, some jokes of friends and like that
[ 16:32:21 ] Gökhan Mura says : I think we should put the selected text literally... not changing what people said online...
[ 16:32:26 ] Mercedes de Garay says : I think that can confuse
[ 16:32:36 ] Nadia_Palliser says : exactly ...
[ 16:32:38 ] Genco Gulan says : All these proof read and highlighted raw texts are online at http://webbiennial.org/
[ 16:32:43 ] Gökhan Mura says : but of course the greetings or the personal talks should be ommited
[ 16:33:09 ] Gökhan Mura says : but what they say on the topic should stay
[ 16:33:42 ] Nadia_Palliser says : I think some literal quotes would be good but some of the tekst is just too chatty and in-crowd at that moment in time - don't you think?
[ 16:34:24 ] Mercedes de Garay says : I think so
[16:34:26] Genco Gulan says : And the other point is I have made a call for texts to at least ten people and only 2 of them, Gulsen Bal and Ryanne de Boer Wrote articles, so these panels were my only solution.
[ 16:34:44 ] Nadia_Palliser says : maybe you could distill these to form a kind of structure for the articles of each topic?
[ 16:34:59 ] Nadia_Palliser says : I think it is a great idea these panels don't get me wrong
[ 16:35:14 ] Nadia_Palliser says : its just a tough cookie to edit :)
[ 16:35:29 ] Gökhan Mura says : :)
[ 16:36:07 ] Genco Gulan says : No, I think I had done and will be doing my part and will be happy to see what Gokhan will do:)
[ 16:36:19 ] Nadia_Palliser says : how about I check out the archive or not to archive - and try to distill a few interesting points as an outsider
[ 16:36:38 ] Gökhan Mura says : besides your 2, Basak Senova told me she is writing, most probabaly Elif Ayiter will also write after she come back to turkey at the weekend.
[ 16:37:09 ] Gökhan Mura says : I could be very harsh while editing ;)
[ 16:37:47 ] Genco Gulan says : OK but it is the longest, because it is a 2 hour discussion at http://webbiennial.org/symposium/panel3.htm/ and I already censured some nasty parts 8)
[ 16:37:48 ] Nadia_Palliser says : well thats what editing is about ?
[ 16:37:56 ] Nadia_Palliser says : okido
[ 16:38:07 ] Gökhan Mura says : I think it is nice if you check the archive or not to archive and send your ideas
[ 16:38:32 ] Nadia_Palliser says : i can't get on the site now but i will check it out this weekend
[ 16:38:51 ] Nadia_Palliser says : when is the panel on Asia so we can get Nat Muller to join us?
[ 16:39:05 ] Gökhan Mura says : I think I will start editing after the weekend only, as I am full till then...
[ 16:39:08 ] Genco Gulan says : I can also email you word or rich text documents if you like!
[ 16:39:32 ] Gökhan Mura says : Genco' I would like to have them as word... :) really....
[ 16:40:05 ] Nadia_Palliser says : ok maybe email me the archive not to archive (the one that is already a little censored :)
[ 16:40:37 ] Nadia_Palliser says : ok well I have to go - nice to finally talk to you both!
[ 16:41:00 ] Genco Gulan says : OK. No Problem at all. I will mail them all to you both! And I have to start working again, it is good to talk to you and let's keep on emailing.
[ 16:41:04 ] Nadia_Palliser says : I will be on Skype more often so we can keep a dialogue going on the newsletter
[ 16:39:32 ] Gökhan Mura says : so I should have a look on the censored texts and start to edit them...
[ 16:45:02 ] Genco Gulan says : immediately